Liverpool ‘won’t touch’ Marc Guehi after rainbow armband row

Marc Guehi and Sam Morsy are still dominating the Mailbox but one Liverpool fan clearly wouldn’t want him anywhere near his club.

Send your views on this – and the midweek football – to theeditor@football365.com

Has Marc Guehi screwed himself?
Interesting to read all the comments on Morsy and Guehi. I’m impressed at G Thomas, Mithram and Clive not understanding the point of the argument to the point it almost appears intentional. It’s personal beliefs yes, but its’ hiding behind the defence of ‘my religion tells me to’ as if it’s not his fault.

So yes G Thomas, Morsy is saying he’s homophobic but without actually saying it. No Mithran, being born into discriminatory beliefs is not a defence. And you certainly don’t have to physically/verbally abuse someone before you a considered a racist/homophobe etc Clive. Simple gestures like this from Morsy and Guehi do all the talking. Also, freedom of speech is not the same as saying anything without repercussion.

This gesture from Morsy and Guehi is an open, visible middle finger to anyone not straight and frankly I cant believe an armband is causing such a problem for these two. If it’s such a burden then they should have just passed armband on for a week or two. As a club captain, the duties spread far and representing the club is one of them.

You don’t get to pick and choose what responsibilities you have and don’t get to pick and choose what bits of your religion you can uphold without moving. What are they worried about? Wearing an armband doesn’t out them as gay and nor does it suggest they partake in any activities that are. It’s not some magic fabric that ‘turns’ them gay either. It’s just a bit weird for them to be so afraid of it.

Incidentally, I’ve written to Ipswich to ask why its ok for the club captain to be outspoken on this topic, but ok with gambling and alcohol. He is permitted to wear a shirt without a sponsor – Chelsea had a whole team of them this season remember. Why not just do that Mr Morsy? Or Mr Guehi? I cant balance the idea that a one off gesture will send them to a lifetime in purgatory but a whole season is absolutely fine. Just for reference;

• Morsy played over 30 times for Middlesbrough in the 2020-21 season where their kit sponsor was gambling company 32Red
• Morsy also played over 40 times for Wigan Athletic in the 2019-20 season where their kit sponsor was gambling company kb88.
• ITFC are currently partnered with gambling company 8xbet, who also are a sister company of gambling firm BK8 recently exposed as having overtly explicit adult advertising
• In the two seasons preceding Morsy’s arrival at the club, ITFC’s kit was sponsored by gambling company Magical Vegas
• Morsy has also played in the FA Cup when it was sponsored by Budweiser

Alcohol, gambling and immodest behaviour. All sins, all denounced by Islam, all absolutely fine to turn a blind eye to. But an armband for a one off game is the line that cant be crossed? This isn’t religion, it’s personal prejudice masquerading as religion and it’s admitting it without actually saying the words.

But now I also think of implications for the two of them. Morsy is 33 and has 18 months to go on his contract, he’ll likely see it out and drop down the leagues for the last few years of his career so likely won’t have to face this again. But Marc Guehi? Has he just wrecked his chances of a big move now? Of the clubs that are a step up and can afford him and also need a new CB – Liverpool won’t touch him now, maybe Newcastle but they might be shopping a bit cheaper. Chelsea possibly but they already have a fair few CBs on the books.

Also wonder about England, would it be possible he’s slipped down the rankings in terms of selection? Has he now put himself firmly in the bracket of “on stand by for tournaments”, the kind of player who is picked in the initial 30 group but not in the final 23? I’m probably over thinking the repercussions to be honest but the final comment I’d leave is that Messrs Guehi and Morsy (and some mailbox contributors) do need to understand what tolerance truly is.
Savo, LFC

How can Sam Morsy be proved ‘right’?
G Thomas in the Mailbag has said that “history will prove” Sam Morsy “right” once “this virtue signalling nonsense is long forgotten.”

I would love for G Thomas to elaborate on exactly what is going to happen in the next few years to lead to this situation? Does he think that gay people will simply get fed up with being gay and stop? Or perhaps they will be eradicated instead and we can forget all about them?

This is the thing with these right-wing snowflakes. Scratch the surface of their “concern for freedom of speech” act even a tiny bit and you reveal a totally intolerant ideology which literally denies the existence of people that aren’t like them.

LGBT people exist, and will continue to do so. They play in your football team, they sit beside you in the stands, they sit across from the dinner table from you at Christmas. Yes, even you G Thomas.

How history could possibly prove Sam Morsy “right” in this case is beyond me, bar a total and violent campaign of intolerance and oppression. If that’s what you want, at least say it with your chest, and stop hiding behind this paper-thin veneer of Defender of Free Speech. No one buys it.
Matt, Dublin

MORE ON THE ARMBAND ARGUMENT FROM F365
👉 Manchester United release statement as dressing room split by one player’s LGBTQ+ stance
👉 ‘Well done Sam Morsy’ and other fan views after rainbow armband stance
👉 Sam Morsy, the rainbow armband, indefensible Ipswich and how tolerating intolerance is never the way

…Lots of the “you say you’re tolerant, but then you criticise the intolerant” ‘argument’ in the mailbox this morning. Learn to take some criticism, you whiny, whiny babies.
Jim, LFC

…Nice to hear from G Thomas, The Netherlands; “Look at the hatred on the pro-Palestinian and trans-activists’ faces when they are demonstrating”.

I would encourage Mr Thomas to research how many Palestinian footballers have been murdered during the last 14 months by the country still allowed to remain in football despite these crimes, and get back to us all on what real “hatred” looks like.

Kind regards,
Jon, Southampton, UK

…There is a beautiful asymmetry going on here that the usual EDL-lite Brexit crowd fail to miss, because bigotry tends to produce hilarious situations like these!

On the one hand, we have the “we need to talk about immigration SMALL BOATS” crowd, the ones who are first to jump on any negative news item featuring Muslims and “grooming gangs”. They of course, ignore that publicly available Home Office statistics show that grooming gang offences are overwhelmingly committed by white men – the narrative is set! Who needs facts when selective cherry-picking will do! What we are usually instead told by fans of former Home Secretary Suella Braverman is that “Islam is incompatible with British values” (or as Kendrick would say, “They’re Not Like Us”!)

So imagine the hilarious paradox we now witness, when we suddenly find out that in fact, Islam CAN be “compatible with British Values” – but only when it involves someone Muslim punching down on protected minorities or women! Got it. So it’s “Woke” to care about showing representation for the LGBTQ+ community by simply wearing a f****g armband because “FREE SPEECH”.

But of course, it definitely is NOT Woke when our dear FAKE TOMMY ROBINSON PATRIOTS, are using Stasi-like language to denounce and harangue anyone who chooses to exercise their right to wear, or not wear, a Poppy. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Bigotry as ever, dressed up as freedom of choice, by those who usually least believe in Real choice (like the right to asylum, the right for women to make choices about Their bodies, the right for a man to love another man etc)
Stewie Griffin

…Hooooo boy!

Some agitated folks in the mailbox this morning unhappy with Mr Tickner’s piece on Sam Morsy.

Gonna be careful not to descend into basic name calling and mud slinging here but basically here’s my view. I recognise tokenistic acts aren’t universally popular and need to be actually followed up with meaningful action but here’s the thing: opposing the possible (given the FA and PL, probable) tokenistic action without offering anything meaningful instead isn’t daring. It just continues the current situation of racism/homophobia/misogyny etc.

Unless of course you don’t think that is a problem, in which case YOU are the problem.

Personally, I have no issue with Morsy or any professional footballer opting out of a campaign but would want some other form of action to be taken by individual or club to address the issue at hand. No-one should be forced to wear an item under threat of abuse and pariah status………..like James McClean, for example.
Andy, formerly London now Cambridge (via everywhere)

Don’t denigrate the right
Your mailbox this morning is introduced with the sub-heading “Sam Morsy dominates the Mailbox as the right come out in support of a Muslim because that’s how the ‘anti-woke’ agenda works now”.

It is well-established and correct that a paper or media outlet be able to hold and relay opinions, and I don’t think anyone who has read your site before could sensibly claim to be surprised at the site’s political views. If they don’t like it, they can read something else.

However, the editor may wish to reflect on the wording used. The implication is that anyone who has right-leaning political views would not normally “support a Muslim”. It also seems to implicitly reject the idea that they might be Muslim themselves.

There is a slightly bizarre opportunity on this football site for a reasoned political discussion to take place with written arguments from both sides. Some minds might be changed one way or the other based on it. But denigrating the entirety of “the right” in the manner you have risks losing that opportunity, and for what appears to be little to no gain.
T. Watson

…The Morsy/Guehi issue really should be a non-story where a progressive society is involved. People should be given all avenues to support and champion whatever causes they believe are worthy of such effort. Yes, even the unpopular right and more conservative-leaning of us must be given air to voice our beliefs. It’s the only way this species will find something of the peace that has eluded us so far.

It’s happened a couple of times in Ligue 1, a nation with a large contingent of immigrants and citizens with heritage from Muslim/Arab nations. Players refuse to join in or in some way blackout messages of support for the LGBT+ community.

I think it’s generally healthier when support for any cause, from the political to the religious is organic and all participants are fully aware of what it means when they lend their voices to these causes.

I respect McLean for refusing to play with a poppy on his chest. He decided against joining remembrance and support for that particular cause and he is well within his rights to do this.

As this website and many other well-meaning ones stress, players are human. Humans with varying backgrounds, beliefs and value systems. It’s what makes the PL such a draw, there is genuine diversity in every line-up, squad and even the administrative infrastructure of so many clubs.

Moralising to and telling these what they can and cannot do when it is convenient will not do much for any cause. And I’d much rather a player decline than puff their chest out only to sign up to play in a country where the cause they supposedly champion is criminalised.
Emmanuel, Abuja
P.S. The news about United players declining to wear a jacket on Mazraoui’s behalf is just coming out and is further proof of concept. Let people champion the causes they believe in. It’s the only way we’ll all learn.

Free speech and all that
A reminder on what free speech means.

Sam Morsy is allowed to not wear an armband.

We’re allowed to call him a bigot as a result.

Both sides represent free speech.

I agree with Tickner, you may not – this is also free speech.

Kind regards,
A Grown Up
(P.s. Forest doing great, woo!)

It’s just gesture politics
Just my two cents on the recent Morsy/Guehi controversy.

Firstly, like poppies, if players are forced to wear something under threat of punishment or opprobrium, the so-called show of support doesn’t mean anything. If I was gay, I’d rather players were allowed to make their own decision and NOT wear an armband than wear one under compulsion.

But my main point is, do these gestures really achieve anything meaningful? Is any homophobe really going to look at these trinkets and think, “Well, I didn’t approve of homosexuality before, but now that I’ve seen these laces…”?

Perhaps a better gesture would be for clubs and players to donate some of their ample cash to projects that support these causes?

Kind regards,
Sam E

MORE ON THE ARMBAND ARGUMENT FROM F365
👉 Manchester United release statement as dressing room split by one player’s LGBTQ+ stance
👉 ‘Well done Sam Morsy’ and other fan views after rainbow armband stance
👉 Sam Morsy, the rainbow armband, indefensible Ipswich and how tolerating intolerance is never the way

…A few years ago I was buying some Dreamies cat treats and the package had a rainbow banner on it with a “proudly supporting LGBTQ rights” message. Dreamies are made by Mars, who sell a multitude of products in countries like Saudi Arabia. They’re not proudly supporting anything, it’s just marketing. There’s little difference with individuals, particularly in our hyper-individualised, self-promoting online world.

Taking the knee. Rainbow armbands. Rainbow laces. Setting your profile picture to a black square. Commenting “This.” under some post or other. Whilst the intentions are no doubt noble, it is achieving nothing at all because nothing is at stake. Those rainbow armbands are sanctioned by the league, Sky run a banner for BLM etc. You’re not “sticking it to the man” when “the man” is quite happy to platform you.

These things have meaning when there is something on the line. Footballers folded when faced with a booking in Qatar. Imagine what the league’s response would be if a player specifically called out Qatar over LGBTQ rights or their treatment of migrant workers and beIn Sports threatened to pull their rights package? He’d be dragged over the coals and it wouldn’t happen again.

All these are empty gestures, usually sold under a guise of something like “raising awareness”, but all they do is make the individual person/company look or feel better whilst doing nothing tangible at all. If you want to make a change, invest your most precious commodity: time.

Get involved with or setup an LGBTQ supporters group, engage with your club about their provisions for disabled fans; whatever your specific cause is, actually get your hands dirty and try and make a difference. Otherwise, you’re just pointing at banners and slogans and doing nothing at all.

In other words, being passive progressive.
Lewis, Busby Way